From his earliest performances and actions in the 1960s involving animal remains through his infamous multi-day, multimedia festivals staged at an Austrian castle, Hermann Nitsch has remained a figure of boldness and controversy. Earlier this year a major show at Museo Jumex in Mexico City was cancelled — but no such fate has befallen the artist’s solo at Marc Straus Gallery in New York, which opened Wednesday and features uncompromisingly confrontational paintings (made with acrylic pigments and, in a few cases, some actual blood). Scott Indrisek sat down with the 77-year-old artist to discuss religion, wine, crucifixions, and why Nitsch considers himself to be on the same side as the animal-rights activists. What is the role and responsibility of the artist?It’s always been the same, from the beginning of art until now: To educate people, to intensify, and to find a form. To use and protect all of our senses.Your exhibition here at Marc Straus features paintings, but those paintings are the results of actions and performances. My action painting is the first stop in the realization of my Orgien Mysterien theater [“Theater of Orgies and Mysteries”]. There’s no symbolism. You can use your private symbolism, and you can have contact through your subconscious, but the most important thing is the substance of the color. It’s not so much the chroma of the color. It’s more the material. And for all the action painters: the color wasn’t so important. I think, for Jackson Pollock, or de Kooning, the color was not so important. But the substance!The works in this show mostly incorporate red and black, but in the past you’ve used many other colors — yellows, purples, and so on.That was a late step in my development. As I was getting older, I was able to work in this style, but with traditional colors — the colors of Monet and Rothko.Obviously certain colors do have associations — like red with blood, and black with tar, or soil.Red was very important. I was very interested in the Jewish and Greek rituals of slaughtering. In my performances I used blood. And also I used blood with paint. The big work [in the upstairs gallery of Marc Straus] is with blood and paint.Marc was saying that he likes the paintings in that upstairs space because it’s almost like a chapel. Do you think your work needs this type of sanctuary environment?I think the traditional religions — they’re not strong enough. I’m very interested in them, but I don’t believe in them. I’m working after Heidegger, with the philosophy of Being. For me, it’s Being instead of God. At the end of the 19th century, many artists were like priests. And I think art can [exist] instead of religion.A priest would traditionally operate in between the congregation and God. As the “priest,” are you helping communicate with something larger?Yes, but in a very modern way. When I make a big exhibition, it’s always a sacred room, like a church — but in a new and different way. Everything is metaphysical. People must believe in their reality, in their true being. Being is always — it cannot die. Only our body dies; but then come new bodies, and new bodies…In the sense of reincarnation?I’m very interested in the ideas of Buddhism. But it’s also a kind of mythology: We’re here now, and we’re always here.Does that make it easier to work with subjects surrounding death, because it’s not a finality?For me there’s no end. Everything is moving. And the problem of time, for me, does not exist. Because time has to do with things that have a beginning and end. In what I believe, creation has no beginning, and no end.Do you think about your legacy about your work carrying on?I hope that in 100 years, or 1,000 years, it will be as important as the work of Rembrandt or Cezanne.How do you feel immediately following an action or performance?It’s a catharsis, a cleansing. A feeling of the power and intensity of creation and being, with all of my friends and workers. And music, for my work, is very important; I compose it for every big performance, it’s connected with this experience.Are there people who have been involved for decades with your work, assisting with live performances?There are very old people, who started with me, and many, many young people who understand my work.What sort of qualities do you look for in a performer?It’s a feeling, during the rehearsals, which are like a fire drill: We practice. But we don’t play. We make a real thing. If I bind a person on the cross, I do it, really. And I hate if someone simulates pain. When he has pain, it comes.Some of your earliest works got you arrested, and you spent some small amounts of time in jail. Do you think artists today are taking the same sort of risks?In every time, new art comes — and they’ll have problems [to confront]. But I hate politics in art. Art is a great philosophy, much more than politics. Artists who are fighting politics are not interesting.Because it’s not effective?I think we have more important things. There must be more intensity — that’s the best politics.You famously live both in Italy and in Prinzendorf Castle, in Austria, a property you bought in 1971. I was curious what your daily life is like there. I live in the country. I like wine! I like to sit outdoors, to go into the vineyards. I paint, I compose. I would say I try to work every day for my art. New York, it’s a great city, but it makes me a little bit afraid. It’s not my lifestyle. But I like it much more than the clean, European cities. That’s not real life. That’s tourism.Earlier this year you made the news when your show at the Museo Jumex in Mexico was cancelled after protests from animal-rights organizers, although the institution’s director gave other reasons for the cancellation.There’s always these problems with animals! I always buy the meat and the blood at the butcher; they’re killed before. I buy the carcasses and use them for my performances. And if the police don’t come and take them away, we eat the animal after we use it. And I like animals! My wife and I, we have peacocks. Fifty peacocks! Donkeys, a goat, we have chickens. We have six cats, a dog. If the animals are ill, we go to the animal doctor.My last exhibition in Palermo, Italy was a great success, all the young people were full of enthusiasm. But before, there were 60,000 signatures [on a petition] against my work. There was a demonstration against me... and three people arrived. The animal-protectors shouldn’t be so stupid! Look at the intensive animal industry [for food]: that’s very bad. I said to them, Why aren’t we united? I’m also an animal-protector. It’s a very big misunderstanding. To use the carcass for my performances: Michelangelo and Rembrandt used human bodies for their art. I think it’s a celebration of nature, and a celebration of the animal, to use them in my performances.Certainly more so than in the case of something like a bullfight...Completely different. There, they kill, really. But it’s a very interesting thing, bullfights. They fascinated me, but I was always against them. But now I know: Those bulls have a better life than those in the animal industry. For two or three years, they’re outside, they have a good time. The bulls for the butcher live only one year, or less.The Jumex show would have been your first solo in Mexico. Do you still hope to show your work there?I’m not against Mexico, but no.What country do you think responds to your work the most?I would say Italy, the Italian temperament. They like drama, tragedy, and joy.That’s surprising to me, since it’s such a Catholic country...The Catholics are very open; the Reformed are more controlled. Catholicism has its roots in pagan religion.What’s next for you?Before I die, I want to make a big, six-day performance in Prinzendorf Castle. I’ll be 79. Music will be very, very important for this performance. It’ll be hard work to prepare. For the last six-day performance I had 500 people working with me. It’s day and night, no stopping — and it ends with the sunrise. It’s like a kind of resurrection.The Hermann Nitsch exhibition is on view at Marc Straus Gallery through October 18.
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